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You may care to have a look at my take on this - indeed a fascinating document.

http://ukcommentators.blogspot.com/2005_07_24_ukcommentators_archive.html#112223647021007288

Yes I saw that Laban and I meant to refer to it in my post but I got carried away.

In this dutch post on Fortuyn (http://www.fransgroenendijk.nl/reactieding.php?id=33_0_1_0_C)
I wrote in april 2002 (shortly before he was murdered) I made a similar comparison of "new Dutchmen vs colonists".
I was very critical towards Fortuyn (and I am still) mainly because of his abolutism, admiration for Berlusconi etc.
Beside that a politician can not confine himself to focus on problems. We need at least an effort to come with solutions, policies.

In the meantime I think it is important that the wishful thinking of the Ken Livingstones of this world are opposed.

Yes, how dare people like Ken be optimistic about the potential for racial integration?

Oh, wait a minute: in London we have successful racial integration. The problems Mahony describes are unique to the mill towns of Lancashire and West Yorkshire. They need solving, but bringing Ken into the equation is utterly meaningless.

But do we have successful racial integration in London, John?

In many areas, yes. People of different races work together, play together, form relationships, get married, have children (not always in that order, mind).

But in a few areas, no. Do you think that Tower Hamlets shows successful racial integration? Twenty years ago and more, white racists made the East End a dangerous place for Asians. Asians were beaten up, murdered, and burnt out of their homes.

Now the boot is on the other foot. Over the last three to four years, Bangladeshi gangs have carried out racist attacks on whites. These appear to be increasing, especially in the Bethnal Green/Columbia Road area. The Pride of Spitalfields pub has been firebombed by Bangladeshi gangs three times (although there may be a financial motive here rather than an outright racist one).

Meanwhile, Tower Hamlets council has, among other things, attempted to sell Limehouse Library to the Bangladeshi government at way below its estimated market value, has providing funding for businesses in the Sylhet region of Bangladesh, and has, through Ocean Housing, promoted Asian-only housing for elderly people.

These do not strike me as symptomatic of successful racial integration.

I'm not sure the immigrant/colonist distinction helps. I thought a colonist was more someone who went to a place where there was relatively nothing, and had to bring their culture. They maybe thought of themselves as having to be self sufficient. An immigrant is someone who need not be recreating a society.

Wouldn't your Pakistani communities just be immigrants who are unwilling to compromise on certain issues. I'm thinking of the young men, who want their turf, instead of giving it up to others.

A good test might be to look at the experience of others in the community. The shopkeepers don't want to refuse business from outside their communities. Do parents refuse to get insurance? Do they keep their children from going to non-pakistani doctors or clinics? Does the Pakistani community refuse to use microsoft? Do they refuse to learn how to drive cars? I suspect a fuller picture would undermine the distinction completely.

My norwegian grandmother was an immigrant, who wasn't able to maintain much of her own culture, except she held on to her language. My Dad had many school yard fights about being a foreigner, but didn't learn the language of his mother, joined the navy, got married to non-norwegian, etc.

It seems this distinction may obscure as much about assimilation as it reveals about racial or ethnic divides.

" Do they refuse to learn how to drive cars?"

No, neither do they refuse to use all taxpayer funded facilities, in fact they are so enthusiastic about them they bring in their extended family to enjoy maternity hospitals & schools.

fuck off u white sob cock sucker....u fags deserve death

bangladeshis run majority of east london...whitechapel, brick lane, stepney green, aldgate, shadwell, bethnal green, eastham, forest gate, manor park, poplar, limehouse, even north london drummond street posse and cromer street massive are both dangerous bangladeshi gangs...they are fighting each other now days and word on the street is that they are thinking of attacking the pakistanis in eastham.

i see the poster above Tim willsher hasn't given a name, whats wrong? couldn't think of an asian sounding name?
Tim - the bangladeshi gangs don't have the financial clout that the pakistani gangs have, they may be all over the place but they don't run those places, the pakistani gangs are beginning to rival the turks in the drugs trade, the turks run the heroin trade....for the moment, but pakistani gangs have direct links with the source, afghanistan is accross the border. In time it'll be Paki vs turk in the street, not bengali's.

Codswallop.

Islamic fundamentalist clans from bangladesh already control the heroin trade between Turkey and Europe.

The silly little gangs fighting on the street are just the bottom end of the distribution network.

Solution ? Round em up and ship em out.

I, as a liberal, have been accused of racism for 30 years over assorted dinner tables.
The fact is, muslims are here in most cases as colonists.
My family were eased out of a part of Maidenhead 35 years ago when muslims made it clear it was now their area.
It must be hell up North, as it is in Slough.

Martin

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