Why UK Muslims are so anti-western

As Shehzad Tanweer justified his murder of innocent civilians on his video, his Yorkshire accent came across loud and clear.  This was no recently-arrived asylum seeker who had entered Britain with the express purpose of waging jihad.  Tanweer was born in the UK.  Even if we had had draconian immigration controls over the past ten years, it would not have stopped the 7/7 bombers,  because they were already here. 

Last month,  The Pew Global Attitudes Project revealed that Britain's Muslims are the most anti-western in Europe.  Few people seemed surprised by this - there was hardly any comment from the UK media.  But why should this be?  The origins of the 7/7 bombers give a clue as to why the attitudes of Britain's Muslims differ so much from those elsewhere in Europe.  What follows is only a hypothesis based on some knowledge of history, on conversations with UK Muslims and on my travels abroad.  However, as no-one else seems to have attempted to explain why UK Muslims should be so anti-western,  I might as well give it a go.

The majority of Britain's Muslims - around 60% - come from the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities.  Pakistanis are by far the largest single ethnic group among British Muslims and therefore lead the major Muslim pressure groups.  When British Islam speaks,  it is usually with a Pakistani voice.

Why is this important?  Because Pakistan and Bangladesh both owe their existence to Islam.  Without Islam, neither state would have come into being.  Islam is therefore fundamental to the national and ethnic identity of Pakistanis in a way that it isn't for Iranians and Indonesians.  Sure, Iran may be a theocracy at present but it had a strong national identity before the rule of the Ayatollahs.  Most Iranians in London celebrate their traditional New Year in March (as we did until 1752) rather than the Islamic New Year.  You can imagine an Iran without Islam, if you try hard enough,  but a Pakistan without Islam would no longer be Pakistan.  Together with Israel and Saudi Arabia,  Pakistan and Bangladesh are the only states in the world that were set up because of the religion of their people.  Pakistan would have no national identity without Islam - its people are simply Indians (or their descendants) who abandoned their religion in favour of Islam.

To be a Muslim, then, is more integral to the identity of Pakistanis than it is to Muslims from other countries.  The comparisons between Muslim countries in the Pew report make interesting reading.  Pakistan scores highest on support for Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden and lowest on those prepared to say that Arabs were responsible for 9/11. Only 15% of Pakistanis and 17% of British Muslims were prepared to point the finger at the Saudis for the attacks compared to 39% and 32% in the Arab countries of Jordan and Egypt.

Because Islam is so central to the identity of Pakistanis,  they identify themselves strongly with other Muslims.  As I have noted previously, this leads to a strange relationship where many militant Muslim Pakistanis are in thrall to the Arabs, especially the Saudis,  while the Arabs don't often return the compliment.  This is why Pakistani militants make videos about Britain oppressing "our people" - because to them,  the Arabs in Iraq and Palestine, as Muslims, are their people.  It is unlikely that many Arabs would describe the Pakistanis as "our people" or would give a toss if Pakistan was being attacked.  For nationalist Pakistanis, though, identifying with Islam and therefore its founders, the Arabs,  goes to the root of their identity.

The second key factor influencing British Muslims' anti-western outlook is the relative isolation of Britain's Pakistani communities.  Most came originally from the traditionalist Mirpur region.  They have tried to recreate their communities in the British towns in which they have settled. A former Race Relations Officer in Bradford described this reverse colonialism:

From colonist to immigrant is the dominant pattern historically, however, this process seems to be thrown into reverse in Bradford.  The Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities now expect to recreate the environment of their country of origin.  They have settled in village patterns which reflect their origins and they constantly reinforce this by bringing in new members from the country of origin.  This, in turn, leads to spatial and social immobility, communities which are internalised on themselves and are relatively self-sufficient in social and cultural terms although reliant in many ways on the economic and government resourced infrastructure.

He goes on to describe how the demand for Muslim only areas has become louder in recent years, as Bradford's Pakistanis are choose to set themselves apart from the rest of society.

So, a combination of factors influences the attitude of Britain's Muslims.  The community is dominated by one ethnic group.  Islam is more fundamental to that group's identity than it is for, say, the Moroccans in France or the Turks in Germany.  The communities have settled here permanently yet have isolated themselves from the rest of society.  These characteristics occur together only in the UK. 

Britain's Muslims mostly come from a country that was founded because of Islam.  They live in communities that reinforce their separateness with frequent new arrivals from the home country. This isolation and strong identification with Islam makes for a more generally anti-western outlook than that found among Muslims in other European countries.

Next up - the other side of the coin.  Why do the British have a more favourable attitude to Muslims than that of their European neighbours?

Comments

[Bob-B]

It may well be true that the centrality of Islam to the identity of Pakistanis means that they identify themselves strongly with other Muslims, but why was there no great concern about the oppression of muslims by Saddam and the Taliban? It looks as if they think that it is better for their fellow muslims to live under a totalitarian dictatorship than under a democracy established by the guns of infidels. In other words, it seems that it is a hostility to infidels and not an empathy for other muslims that is the key factor.

[Wolfie]

Good post Steve. This problem has been a long time in the making while our governments quietly dozed. If only the US government had moved on to Pakistan after Afghanistan, rather than wasting resources in Iraq...

[oliver]

Interesting stuff. As to your last question; this result surprised me most from the Pew poll. But let me speculate. Firstly, there are a lot of people that still believe in Benneton-advert style multiculturalism, which is heavily promoted in schools and which thrives on a kind of hands-across-the-water sentimentality in which the Brits excel. Secondly, the taboo against criticising immigration and by extension, immigrants, is stronger here than in other European countries (particularly France imho). Also more acute here is the notion that immigration is 'colonial blowback' and that we have to atone for empire. The CoE might have somehting to do with it, too, promoting a kind of benign, slightly apologetic paternalism. Anything else?

[Dave]

Great and post Steve but there is a contradiction in what you say.

firstly you say "Even if we had had draconian immigration controls over the past ten years, it would not have stopped the 7/7 bombers"

then you quote in agreement with "The Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities now expect to recreate the environment of their country of origin ..... reinforced by bringing in new members from the country of origin."

Thats where mass immigration is the problem. The constant renewal of more immigrants from back home is slowing down or even reversing integration.
I have no doubt on my own mind that if it wasn't for the totally crazy immigration policies of that last 10, 15, 20 years we wouldn't be having the problems we have today.

Something you didn't mention was over 50% of British Pakistanis are married to cousins.
"Liberal democracy is based on the Western idea of autonomous individuals committed to a public good, but that's not how members of these tight and bounded kin groups see the world."
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001667.html

[John Hustings]

"Why do the British have a more favourable attitude to Muslims than that of their European neighbours?"

Maybe they're afraid of saying what they really think to the pollsters. I just think people have a sort of guilty split-mind over issues like this. They feel they *ought* to have a favourable opinion of muslims because the media is constantly telling them they're racist if they don't.

[Dave]

yep John, my Dad is like that. One min he is talking like its a good idea to give asylum to anyone in need, next thing he'll say something about too many foreigners..

He seems stuck in the post war guilt, but still very concerned about the way the country is changing.

Another thing is the law is tougher on whites, no doubt if 'whites' had held up the same kind of signs as the cartoon protesters some of them would be in jail on race & religious hate.

[The Atheist Jew]

The big question I have is why do anti-Western Muslims want to live in the West?

Also, I sort of disagree with you when you say Israel was started because of religion. I think Jewish ethnicity would be a better way to say it. Herzl was an Atheist Jew.

I look at Israel as a refuge for Jews to go in case anti-semitism gets out of hand anywhere in the world. And anti-semites don't care if a Jew believes in God or not.

[john arthur]

Great essay! You hit it on the spot.

I remember someone saying that "Pakis are just Indians that are still serving their Arab masters..."
(Was that Ann the Man Couter?).
There is a lot of truth there, somewhere.

John Kactuz

[Rastaman]

Yes Wolfie, if only the U.S. Government had done this and done that. It's all their goddamned fault. Whine. Goddamned Americans. Whine.

I can't begin to tell you how tired I am of Euros bitching about the US not covering everyone elses ass while the Euros are busily fucking their own countries into the dirt. If you don't like the US example then start setting one of your own. Quit crying and start fighting. You think you people have an anti-American bias? You should see how MINE is growing against Europe. Do you suppose I'm all alone here? Get off our shit and start dealing with your own or you may soon lose the only good ally you have.

"If everyone else would quit screwing up and do their job, my life would be wonderful." This is the attitude of literally all alcoholics and if you don't believe that, go sit in on an AA meeting or two and listen.

The Brits have a favorable attitude toward Muslims because of the British herd instinct.

Mooooooo

[BNP member]

I sympathise with rastaman. I cant argue with him on this. Perhaps Britain needs to fall all the way before we pick up our feet and start to run a normal country again.. just like alcoholics need to hit rock bottom.

[alison]

Bollocks Rasta. Deal with ya own

[alison]

I think Wolfie was referring to ALLIED forces - y know the Brits..the US allies fighting out in Afghanistan and Iraq. Im SICK to death of US whining about us over here when its clear the MSM are the culprits on the anti US skew, not all of us. The US have a nice home grown crop of their own jihadis - one of whom was busy working his magic over here and is up at the Old Bailey and one who works the most SUCCESSFUL part of Al Queda - their propaganda arm! The Euros dont whine on about the US not helping out - its the opposite so you can always take their advice? The Brits on the other hand have been a strong ally so quit throwing us all into the same handbasket.

[Inverted Anus]

I believe that much of the problem has to do with young islamic men feeling isolated from the social mainstream, because Allah incessantly fiddles with his penis. If he could limit this activity to 40 or so minutes a day, then Mohammed could become the undisputed queen of fellatio.

[G. Tingey]

Just to show that the muslims are not the only proble, and ESPECIALLY for "Rastaman" look at this link - really scary .....
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/07/just_another_salem.php

[Rastaman]

"The Euros dont whine on about the US not helping out"

LOL! Since when?

Listen. You guys are telling me that there is a strong anti-American feeling there but YOU don't feel that way, then you turn around and make cracks like Wolfies or "Im SICK to death of US whining about us over here". Do it in the bucket please.
Only one in a hundred of you can talk directly about reality. The rest of you try to change the subject with comments like "The US have a nice home grown crop of their own jihadis" that have zero to do with the actual subject. Practicing denial.

The subject is "Brits Standing Up For Britain" and demanding what's right for their country, doing something about it, taking their country back from the greasy bastards running it, fighting back, being heard. That's the subject. Not turning the conversation back into another bitch at the USA.

I repeat, for those who didn't grasp it the first time around: If you don't like the US example then start setting one of your own. Quit crying and start fighting.

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

[Inverted anus]

I agree with inverted anus: there is a time and a place for everything. I know its easier said than done, but you shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch because history has a way of repeating itself, and then you'll just have to get back on that horse, because it's no good crying over spilt milk.

[Wolfie]

Alison is right. Thank you.

Mislaid our "Meds" have we?

[Inverted anus]

Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that inverted anus is right.

[Alison]

Oh FFS Rasta. I posted a reply under your (not in the least bit stereotyping/patronising Brits) post on your blog.

[Rastaman]

If you want to follow this conversation of sorts, it's continued on Alisons blog.

Wolfie, where in the following sentence does it say "ALLIED"?

"If only the US government had moved on to Pakistan after Afghanistan, rather than wasting resources in Iraq..."

I could swear that it says US government and that there is not the slightest hint or clue of actually meaning the Allied forces. Honestly man, between you and Alison......

Come on. You are completely capable of admitting error. I know you are, you have done so before. You don't need an apologist to cover your backside. I don't get it, I know you have much more self respect than that.

[Wolfie]

If its unquestioning devotion you need to prop-up your enfeebled ego I suggest you buy yourself a dog, or better still take our Prime Minister - I think he's as good as finished over here.

Let me put this in language that even you might understand...

A man sits in a bar drinking all day bemoaning the fact that he can't get a girlfriend.

A) Friend A enters the bar. "All girls are bitches, you don't need girls, let me buy you another drink." he says and buys him another beer.

B) Friend B enters the bar. "What are you doing sitting here drinking?" he says, "come to the gym with me and shape-up. We'll go out on the pull afterwards."

Who is the better friend?

[woah]

you people are amazingly racist and prejudice. B******'s.

[Rastaman]

LOL. Ummm are you suggesting that I would be the one buying the beer? I'm the guy who's trying to get you to stop moaning and shape up.
Hello?

"Let me put this in language that even you might understand..."

That's what you call "having a go at each other", right? Steve was telling me all about the British penchant for verbally abusing each other, on a comment in my blog.

Not interested.

It is interesting though, that you use a bar and drinking as your example. I think you, Alison and I have reached a good understanding of who each of us is. I wish you the best of luck.

[BNP member]

*British people have a different speech pattern from americans. We are more sarastic and ironic. It can be meant to be oombatative, but not to the degree an average american would read it as.

I know this, not only because im British, but also because im reading a book that told me so.

Yeah, I agree with all you guys: Inverted anus has hit the nail on the head.