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"What is Red Toryism? A view of the world that is right-of-centre on political and social issues but left-of-centre on economics". In other words a corporate state with a repressive social policy. Sounds suspiciously like Fascism to me (or possibly an Iran style theocracy).

Ah yes, that old chestnut.

I meant to mention this in the post - there is always the danger that those who don't like the idea of Red Toryism will adopt the time-honoured left-liberal tactic of shouting 'fascist'.

Is there anything in my post or Phillip Blond's artilce that indicates the desire for a repressive social policy or, for that matter, a corporate state?

Moomintroll: free yourself from the 2x2 box of political categories (con, lib, soc, fas)... There are plenty of shades of grey in real societies.

Steve: thanks for the link. In re the tension between the ideas and those who fund the party - it's the same for all parties; even Union funding is now wedded to the social-Left agenda.

I think Blond's main error is to be trapped in old categories on economic policy. I don't see any mileage in protectionism, dirigisme, etc.; but that doesn't close off all of the options.

Philip Blond has the nous to realise that a sea change has occurred, just as it did in the mid 70s. Then the unions were often described as 'holding the country to ransom'- and Tory policy on industrial relations moved strongly to the right as a consequence.
If any group has the country's delicate bits in a vice at the moment, it is the banksters- brazenly telling the rest of us that they'll go offshore if their bonuses are touched (while ignoring the fact that Obama in the US has capped bonuses at those institutions receiving bailout money!). Corporate abuse of power now worries most people more than an overweening state.'Red Toryism' could well prove to be a vote winner at the grassroots, and economic policy should change to reflect these concerns. The problem for the Cameroons however (as you correctly state) is their closeness, as individuals and as donor supplicants, to the villains contributing to our current economic predicament.

"Just at the point when deregulation has brought us to the brink of oblivion"

Not so.

Badly designed regulation, ineffective regulation, 'has brought us to the brink of oblivion'.

Excellent post Steve and yes I'd call that an accurate assessment of my political position given the definitions you've framed.

Thing is, I wouldn't exactly call my opposition to free market fundamentalism in any way anti-capitalist. What the current free-market zeitgeist has ushered in is corporatism, the steroid enhanced bastard progeny of a drunken liaison between communism and robber barony. Conservative capitalism should provide a framework for a rich and diverse business environment which can only function in a healthy society, doesn't much sound like Britain today does it?

Another great post on the subject of "real" conservatism, which doesn't fit well with either state socialism or corporate capitalism.

I concur that a combination of genuine social conservatism with a less laissez-faire attitude to bankers and plunderers is a good thing!

Well I was never going to be Red Sonja, nor Red Adair or Red Rum.
A red tory it will have to be.

I want to discuss the notion that Libertarians desired the city of spivs

we can have deregulation, tax loopholes, offshoring and outsourcing. etc.

If you read any Libertarian theorist you find acknowledgement that there are corrupt businessmen. Think Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugs".

There's no doubt that they exist and part of their corruption is to demand state intervention to support them or protect them. This is what we see today in America with Ford and General Motors. The parties that go along with this come from both left and right. Another example is the corporate grab for subsidies from alternative energy producers and offsets salesman. The left's charge that politicians are in the pockets of business is something with which libertarians have some sympathy

During the 1980s the government denationalised various industries. You portray this as selling off state assets but it's hard to see an asset in British Leyland.

My discomfort from this exercise is not that the state got out of industry but that the proceeds were squandered. Sure some when back to the owners in the form of tax rebates but a large proportion went to increase the size of the social state - outreach workers etc - and the rest to people savvy enough to buy the shares. As someone said to me at the time - we bought them twice; once when they were nationalised and once when they were sold off - the company shares should have been given away to citizens.

Steve describes himself as Old Old Labour and I have some sympathy with that. Once upon a time the Labour party espoused values that would be seen as conservative today. They recognised the distinction between respectable and non-respectable poor. The Labour party supported aspiration and a desire to improve themselves - think workers educational associations; think Bevan teaching himself. They thought that welfare should be based upon qualification, not right - you deserved because you contributed.

That's gone but not because of libertarianism. It died because the roles the Labour movement took upon itself, like adult education, like welfare support were subsumed by the state.

You can date the victory of the new labour over the old to the 1980s - that is true. However those people who came to dominance were educated in the two to three decades before. They were people who had grown up with the welfare state and never known anything different.

The Prospect article calls for Red Conservatism. That strikes me as a demand for a return to the post war consensus. I'm not sure that's viable anymore. The social attitudes that made the welfare state work for the first twenty years are gone.

They were attitudes born of an earlier era, when the welfare state was a utopian dream.

Sounds right to me....

Between them, since Eden (the worst PM since Lord North ....)
The Tories and Labour have conspired to cock-up (if you see what I mean) ...
Defence, Education, Transport, and now, finally the economy.

We can't defnd ourselves, the education system isn't interested in merit or ability, the transport system is geared for cheap fuel and flying everywhere, and road-building profits to "our friends, and now a combination of Thatcher's destruction of society (which didn't exist -rememebr?) in pursuit of short-term gain, and Brown's passive acquiescence in the same have now finally landed us in it.

People are starting to turn to the BNP (ugh) because there's no-one else, which is NOT a pleasant prospect.

I think Blair was a red Tory but 9/11 railroaded him and everyone's focus. In fact Labour unlike any other bunch in history has achieved bugger all advancement domestically in its tenure. The Tories had to break the unions and free the market up for us to survive. That was their calling and thank you Maggie. Labour then squandered so much of the economic success they were handed with sod all but as I mentioned 9/11 maybe changed our focus and concentration til it was too late. But Blair did turn them into a free market movement finally. Can you imagine Labour without Thatcher or Blairs influence and where we would be at? Holllly shit. Michael Foot's lot anyone?!

And that's where it all went tits up for the Tories who have flailed around lost for so long as a result.

I enjoyed the article and nodded at a lot of it throughout. Especially that nod to social libertarianism, comodifying sex etc.

I am still picking through the article. I would love for British politics to be facing a new 'turn'. I believe the article mentioned Disraeli and likened this section of history to his tenure? That would be refreshing. And yes I would describe myself as a red Tory ;)

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