Nick Griffin's Question Time debacle doesn't mean he is wrong about everything

In what will probably be the most-watched episode in the programme's history, Nick Griffin finally appeared on Question Time last night. It was a controversial decision by the BBC. Only hours before the broadcast went out, many were still saying that QT was not an appropriate forum for scrutinising the BNP's policies. The programme, they argued, would be the ideal platform for a demagogue like Nick Griffin. NUJ leader Jeremy Dear's response was typical when he said that the BNP ought to be subject to "proper journalistic scrutiny" rather than the "knockabout soapbox" environment of Question Time. The implication of this argument was that a TV audience could not possibly deliver an incisive examination of the BNP and that such things were best left to professional interviewers.

Within the first few minutes of the programme, this somewhat elitist argument was proved wrong. David Dimbleby and the Question Time audience succeeded where most professional interviewers have failed.  They nailed Nick Griffin on the subjects where he and his party are most vulnerable. Mr Griffin's past association with white supremacists, his holocaust denial and his trip to Libya to ask Gaddafi for funding were all up for discussion, as were the BNP's pseudo-science, pseudo-history and conspiracy theories.

The panellists chose different strategies for dealing with Nick Griffin. Jack Straw was so angry that at one point he was shaking with rage. At the other extreme, the almost playful attacks by British Museum director Bonnie Greer were surprisingly effective. 

Ms Greer mentioned Nick Griffin's Cambridge degree a couple of times before demolishing some of the cod history and spurious attempts to define racial purity on the BNP's web-site. She knew he was far too intelligent and well-read to actually believe any of this stuff. And he knew that she knew. When she challenged him he was clearly embarrassed and didn't know what to do next. He seemed, briefly, to consider flirting with her, which wouldn't have gone down well with some of his his supporters, but in the end he resorted to a sheepish laugh, which made him look rather like a naughty boy who had been caught with his hand in the biscuit tin. Watch this clip from the show; it's priceless.

The evening went from bad to worse for Mr Griffin as he proved unable to defend either his own past or some of his party's more spurious assertions. He even claimed that a non-existent law on holocaust denial prevented him from explaining why he had changed his mind about holocaust denial. It made him look very silly.

But just because Nick Griffin and his party have dodgy pasts and crazy views doesn't mean that they are wrong about everything, and many in the audience clearly understood that distinction. The first and only applause Mr Griffin got was when he explained his description of  Islam as a wicked and vicious faith and questioned the religion's compatibility with British values . When the discussion turned to immigration it was the mainstream politicians who found themselves on the spot. One of the show's highlights was Jack Straw being harangued by a black man for his party's failure to control immigration.

David Dimbleby threw a quote from Frank Field at Jack Straw:

A fight-back against the BNP will only begin when the party leaders give a full pledge that our population will not breach the 65 million barrier. 

He should also have asked Tory representative Sayeeda Warsi about this quote from Conservative Home's Tim Montgomery (at 7: 23 here):

...the only thing that will undermine the BNP is a mainstream party which opposes unbridled immigration.

For all the attacks on Nick Griffin by the audience and the panel on last night's show, the issues which have made so many people turn to the BNP haven't gone away. Mainstream parties have failed to control immigration, made policies that ripped communities apart, allowed international financiers to wreck our economy and rob us blind, gone soft on crime and discipline in schools, pandered to unrepresentative puffed-up community leaders and introduced laws to stop us criticising religious lunacy.

The BBC's decision to invite Nick Griffin onto Question Time has been vindicated.  He did, indeed, get a rougher ride than any of the professional interviewers have given him and the wilder claims of his party were effectively demolished. That doesn't mean that people will stop voting for him though. As some audience members recognised last night, the fact that so many people are willing to put their cross against someone who peddles such rubbish is a continuing sign of the mainstream parties' failure.

The Labour, Liberal and Conservative representatives got off lightly last night because Nick Griffin drew most of the fire. But ultimately it is they and their colleagues in Parliament who are responsible for the mess we are now in, not the leader of a small party with two MEPs, a handful of councillors and lot of daft ideas.

You can watch the whole episode of Question Time here.

Comments

[Haw Haw Harry]

"He even claimed that a non-existent law on holocaust denial prevented him from explaining why he had changed his mind about holocaust denial."

============================================

Yeah, right. I guess that's why Frederick Toben was arrested at Heathrow at the request of the German authorities in 2008.

[Steve]

Toben wasn't extradited though was he?

There is no law against holocaust denial in the UK, as you well know.

[Mark]

Griffin looked uncomfortable and shifty when asked about his past associations with David Duke, and his self-proclaimed repudiation of Holocaust denial.The nearest he got to a 'hit' was his below the belt jibe about Jack Straw's dad and his non participation in WW2, and how that compares unfavourably with his own father's service in the RAF.

On this performance alone I can't see the BNP getting a 'Le Pen bounce' out of this episode. However the conduct of the antifascist demonstrators (6 arrests, 3 plods hurt)and the bearpit atmosphere in the studio (4 against 1, and an almost uniformly hostile audience)could perversely get them a sympathy vote, especially from what remains of the WW2 generation.

[chachi]

A very dull & overhyped program, nick griffin was unprepared for what were really simple questions, he came armed with simplistic views based on obvious lies, nothing he quoted was based on any truth, mostly he just sat there & listened quite passively, not quite the confident leader type nick griffin you see in his speeches to his followers. I guess it's a lot easier to stick your chest out & sound genuine when the listeners can't even spell their own names than answering to people who are a lot more intelligent than yourself.

I've got to give him one thing though, can't call him a coward, he put himself up against people who actually know what their talking about & showed himself up, as was expected but at least he stood by what he believed in. Gotta give that to him.

@ Steve - Although griffin maybe a bigoted idiot, you didn't get what he meant by the holocaust denial law stopping him from explaining his views. Although here in england it may not affect him, are you unaware that griffin travels throughout europe, including france & germany to 'rally the troops', where such laws do apply & would get him arrested, prosecuted or even banned from, hence his decision to keep quiet.
To explain his views would mean no longer being able to travel to such places.
Come on steve, thats one criticism that doesn't hold water.

[jpt]

One word for last night - ambush!

[Steve]

JPT - surely an ambush is something that takes you completely by surprise.

Unless they are extremely stupid or arrogant, anyone who stopped to think about it could have predicted what happened last night.

[Martin]

Yes Griffin was "had", but this won't necessarily work against him in the long run. At one point during the show Griffin was being put on the defensive by Dimbleby and was laughing nervously to make light of the pressure he was under. "Why are you laughing, it's not funny" said Dimbelby. Griffin did not reply, he didn't need to, he knew we all knew why he was laughing.
One nil to Dimbelby? Yes, if you already hate Griffin and all he stands for, but to those who might be more sympathietic to his views they might have been more inclined to side with him against clear bullying tactics.
I am reminded of a film I saw recently: Paul Blatt, Mall Cop. Paul Blatt is a fat, ineffectual mall cop. At one point in the film someone senior to him is rude to him. Blatt feels impotent so he laughs. As an act of added cruelty the senior man says to him, "Why are you laughing Blatt, I just insulted you", Blatt says nothing in return but this is not meant to endear us to the power of the bully but to the impotence of his victim.
Being on the receiving end all night might not have been a bad thing for Griffin.

[Martin]

I thought that going on QT would backfire on Nick Griffin because he couldn’t possibly win in the inevitable bear pit that he would be in. I anticipated that he would get very few arguments fully out because he would be shouted down by the audience and panel keen to prove their anti-racist credentials. In the event it was actually a little less like this than I anticipated but given the difficult circumstances, I thought Griffin performed reasonably well.
An inevitable problem Griffin faced was being showered with accusations. At one point he was being challenged about god knows how many past quotations but I didn’t hear him get a full sentence out in explanation. This might have been an achievement from the audience’s point of view, but I don’t think anyone nailed him on anything because unless you are prepared to listen to someone until they have finished their point you will never know if they had an adequate defence or not.
With regards Jack Straw’s offer to give Griffin Immunity to any prosecution regarding Holocaust denial, I thought this amounted to incitement to racial hatred since he was clearly inviting Griffin to make inflammatory statements. Jack Straw may have felt that because he was dealing with Griffin he was entitled to adopt an unprincipled tactic but asking a man to please take the rope you are hoping he will hang himself with is beneath contempt.
Griffin wisely avoided the trap, not least because even if he would not be in danger of arrest in this country from holocaust denial, he would forever have to avoid certain countries around the world that might arrest him and extradite him to Germany.
Not that I believe Griffin expressed his beliefs sincerely. For a start I think that his focus on Islam disguises his real dislike of other races, he just thinks that religious hatred will play better with the Great British public at the moment.
I was particularly interested in the audience’s response to Griffin’s attack on Islam as being anti women. Again he was being deceitful in my view, because this is not what concerns him. What he needed was a stick to beat Islam with that the public could not criticize him for using, so he chose sexism since, being a politician, he knows that this issue trumps all else, even religious sensibilities.
It put the audience in something of a difficulty since they knew they could not exactly condone his attack but neither dare they risk condemning him for it and seeming to be anti-women themselves. Yes, it’s a trick, but it's one all the politicians play one way or the other.

[George]

She knew he was far to intelligent and well-read to actually believe any of this stuff.

Intelligent enough to spell the word too correctly as well?

[Monty]

I suspect that had he been allowed to go on, instead of being interrupted, he might have gone on to say something relevant about the EU arrest warrant as it may be applied in Brussels, and in Strasbourg. They are both places where he is obliged to travel as an MEP.

[af]

What we witnessed last night was the birth of the BNP as a serious political force in this Country.

Seriously, does anyone believe Griffin was ever going to 'win' this debate - or should we say survive this ambush?

The bottom line, is that having used these unprecedented methods for the QT arena, they had to knock Griffin out cold politically, in order to make that the foremost factor.

They bruised him. They dented him. But there was no knockout. On Sky today he actually looked polished and like it or not his words will resonate about London.

I doubt very much the BNP are feeling bad about last night. As shown by the frustration of Dimbleby near the end of the show, they realised they hadn't damaged him. And that, translates into political capital for the BNP.

Opinion polls will indicate who 'won' last night. A cursory glance around all the papers and the most recommended comments puts it all in perspective. My God people are angry as hell. The ridiculous impotent "there is nothing British about the BNP" tack-on is playing right into their hands. Abstract fury and patronising people about what is or is not British just looks incontinent.

I thought it was absurd that the entire panel and studio audience could not accept that indigenous and "white" aren't synonymous.

With the EU immigration policies we have an influx of white immigrants that many would agree aren't indigenous. My family certainly is not. I accept that without it wrecking who I am and how I feel attached to this country as though I were.

And wasn't Jack Straw good at question dodging? He didn't mind attacking the BNP, but once the focus was on Labour's faults, it was back with the vague crap we're used to him giving.

[Haw Haw Harry]

There's no doubt that Griffin could have done better and indeed is capable of better but he clearly was not going to risk being caught out - which is how the show was set up to do - even if he did end up looking like Billy Bunter in the process.

At a bare minimum, all he had to do to win was not get riled into saying something stupid. So he succeeded.

[James G.]

Watching it now...I think I agree with af's opening comment...This is the birth of the mainstream emergence of the BNP.

Even people at work (who tend to get their opinions from the main stream) were saying it looked extremely unfair and that he wasn't given a chance to get a word in edge-wise. Looked to a disinterested person that he might have been on the verge of saying something "dangerous" to the other parties.

[Martin]

Until the mainstream parties have the courage to stand up
for the feelings of most British people, including non whites,
on certain vital topics, only the BNP & UKIP will express
them.
UKIP is highly respectable, but does not get the notoriety of the BNP.

The topics are, of course.
Mass immigration & its deleterious effects.
Islamism,both immigrant & home grown.
The unaffordability of the welfare state & its magnetic
attraction for immigrants.

Racism per se is not a British characteristic,
otherwise the BNP would have done very much better.
It has dropped anti semitism, the lowest form of racism,
though, this has been adopted by the far left now to appease islamism.